What used to be Jammu and Kashmir Bhawan in Delhi’s Chanakyapuri is now Ladakh Bhawan. Kashmir and Kashmiris must remain bundled off in a corner of the backyard. Mehbooba Mufti is in transit to Srinagar, having arrived from Patna where she attended a conclave of Opposition parties. As former chief minister and MP, she’s been assigned a matchbox accommodation in a relegated block. The “VIP Suite” label on the door rings of a taunt, but it’s nothing Mehbooba allows herself to be bothered over; she comes from concerns not easy to accommodate in any acreage.

We begin our conversation soon after news has filtered in that army jawans entered a mosque in south Kashmir predawn and forced those at prayer to chant “Jai Shri Ram”.

Q. You are now imprinted in history as the last chief minister of what used to be the state of Jammu and Kashmir. How do you look back over these years, since you took power in alliance with the BJP, and after the dismantling of the state and abrogation of special status under Article 370?

I have no words for it, what am I to say? Kashmiris have been unpeopled, if I could use the word, there is none other, no vocabulary for what has been done to us. Do we even matter? It has been a continuous process since 2018 after the BJP withdrew support. That is when they began to subvert democracy. But it didn’t matter to anybody, in Kashmir you can commit murder in the name of national interest, it is okay to do so. And August 5, 2019, was the beginning of the stripping of Kashmiris, whatever they had including their clothes and their dignity. Since then, it has gotten worse and worse and there is nothing to stop this denigration of Kashmiris. We have many more agencies in Kashmir than you have at the Centre, many more local intelligence and security outfits. There is a running competition between them over who can harass and humiliate Kashmiris more. The fundamental right of holding a passport has become a luxury. This is not about me or my mother or daughter, but if they can do it to me, imagine what they can do to other Kashmiris. If they can file a report that it is not in the national interest to give a passport to my 75-year-old mother, who has also been the wife of the home minister of India (the late Mufti Mohammed Sayeed), you can imagine the plight of common people, young Kashmiris who want to go abroad to study. You know what is happening to journalists in the Valley, there is no journalism left, you have friends, you would know. So many young boys are in jails outside the state, their parents often don’t have enough resources to go see them, there is no hearing. If Kashmir was indeed so normal and if not a stone was thrown after August 5, 2019, why were they picked up and why are they in jail? They have adopted the Israeli model of oppression and suppression in Kashmir, New Delhi is doing what Israel does in Gaza and the West Bank. We have been dispossessed and disempowered. But you know what hurts most? It is the celebration of our pain in the rest of the country, the distribution of sweets…

Q. Wasn’t it a mistake, a political error, aligning with the BJP?

Well, you know it was a decision based on much larger ideas, maybe that was a mistake. Muftisaheb would always tell me, Mehbooba, you know India is like an elephant but Kashmir is holding it back because of their alienation, especially after the 1990s when the gun and militancy came. Kashmiris were also suffering. And so he made a move, he tried. He was able to persuade (Atal Bihari) Vajpayeesaheb to open up to Pakistan, dialogue happened, 2002-2005 was the best period in Kashmir when Muftisaheb was chief minister, with the BJP and then with the Congress. Dialogue happened, the road to Muzaffarabad was opened. Even I told Muftisaheb at the beginning, how can you do it, this alliance with the BJP? Our people will not accept it. He said I don’t want to be a chief minister just to construct roads and building, I have a vision. With (Narendra) Modiji, my father wanted to re-start what had begun with Vajpayeeji. It was a challenge he wanted to take in his twilight years. Even though I was opposed, even though our people were angry and upset. He was aware it was a hugely unpopular decision he was taking, but he took it because he wanted to give Kashmir and India a chance. He put everything at stake — his reputation, his credibility, me, the PDP. Our partymen were saying how can we go with Modi, Muftisaheb said it is we who are in need, not Modi. He had got a huge mandate, it was a divisive mandate but my father wanted to make it an inclusive one with the participation of Kashmiris. It was a huge risk, his people were very angry, his health got affected, but he wanted to do it, integrate Kashmir and Kashmiris with a party that had won a huge mandate in India, he said there is no other way, and he also said, look, we have our dignity, our own flag, a strong Assembly, why should we fear anything?

In Srinagar, a few days after the abrogation of Article 370 Photo by Yawar Nazir/Getty Images

Q. He was investing such trust in Modi?

It wasn’t as simple. Perhaps even he knew it wasn’t going to last. Actually even two days before the alliance, he wasn’t entirely sure. Haseeb (Drabu) came and told him they (the Modi establishment) were not agreeing to everything, and that created doubts. That is why we drafted the Agenda of Alliance, which ensured our special status under Article 370, and promised revocation of Afspa, dialogue with the Hurriyat and Pakistan, the return of Pandits to the Valley. In a sense, it was our self-rule document. In his head, he was also trying to delay what he suspected Modi would finally do. In fact, in his meeting with the governor just before the alliance was made, he told him that when these BJP people come, please tell them not to say “Bharat Mata ki Jai” because here we already said “Hindustan Zindabad”. Why do they need to cry that slogan? He had his suspicions all the time. But then he passed away and that was one of the most unfortunate things to happen to Kashmir.

Q. You took a long, long time deciding to go along with the BJP, more than three months…

I remember Rajnathji had come the same day and he told me, Mehboobaji, get ready, and I said to him, what for, I don’t want to do it. I had seen my father under tremendous mental stress, caught between the alliance and peoples’ sentiment. Today they cry “dynast-dynast” at me but they literally begged me to take power. There was a sense that I should not ditch halfway what Muftisaheb had started and invested so much in. Then there were elements and groups that tried to hijack the party, and I thought to myself if they manage to do something and play the BJP game in government without the Agenda of Alliance, I will get the blame. There were compulsions, there was also no option at the time.

Q. When or how did it begin to sour between you and the Modi regime?

To be honest, I won’t blame the BJP solely and wholly for it. The situation on the ground became so terrible and tense, especially after the death of Burhan Wani, that nothing seemed to work. The loudspeakers began blaring anger everywhere, people came out and began pelting security camps and police stations, it just wouldn’t stop. The people were extremely angry and the BJP thought I was being too soft. I just had no breathing space, after two months of assuming power, I lost all the breathing space, it was a torrid time. I was embattled on both sides. I had given amnesty to about 12,000 pelters, that went against me. The Centre wanted me to slap more PSA cases against people and you know how PSA can ruin your whole future. I wouldn’t do that. They wanted me to crack down on the Jamaate-Islami and I said I cannot do that just because you want it. And then I was told — and I won’t tell you who told me — I was told, Mehbooba, don’t give the dead bodies (of militants) to their families.

Q. Who was it?

I can’t tell you that, but I was told very pointedly by the top. I was told it was creating a security problem, thousands of people were gathering around these dead bodies and tension was building, I was told to stop. I said I can’t do that, I said how can you refuse dead bodies? Then there was the Kathua rape of the little girl, and you know how the BJP sided with the rapists and ministers came out in their support. They wanted the case handed to the CBI so they could manipulate it. I refused. I also demanded that the two ministers who were part of the rally supporting rapists had to be dropped. But why I don’t wholly blame the BJP is that the situation in the Valley went out of my hands. There was a month-long ceasefire during Ramzan, but the militants did not respond. An all-party delegation had come to the Valley, I wrote to the Hurriyat leaders to meet them, but they shut their doors, they didn’t even offer a cup of kahwa. And the pelting was just not stopping. So many times, Rajnathji offered dialogue but there was no response. That is when the BJP probably thought enough was enough. It was our failure too in the sense that we failed to educate our people that the PDP-BJP was like a protective wall around what we had, if it fell, everything was going to go away.

Q. Was Ram Madhav an honest interlocutor? Through the crisis?

Well, I think with the passage of time he got involved in other things.

Q. What other things?

Well, I wouldn’t like to talk about them, I am not going to. Let’s just say other things. Of course, we would talk and we would communicate, but there wasn’t the kind of comfort level which should have been there.

Q. I must ask you this: Satyapal Malik, who was governor at the time of the abrogation of Article 370, is singing a new tune these days, saying Modi doesn’t know a thing about Kashmir, denying a lot of things that happened...

(Smiles) Just think about the fax machine, the fax machine that wasn’t working. After the BJP pulled the rug from under me, an all-party government was ready to be formed, but his fax machine wasn’t working. Aisa kabhi hota hai? (laughs) Anyway, he lied about several things and to the very last.

Q. How did you take August 5, 2019?

As a Kashmiri, as a politician, as a citizen... I am looking for a word that would come close to expressing it. I was devastated, we were devastated, but that is nowhere close.

Q. You must have seen it coming, or no?

For a week or so there were rumours flying about. That’s why I took the initiative, I called Farooq Abdullah and said let’s meet, all parties. He said fine, then just a day after that he was summoned by the ED or some such body. I could sense he was a little hesitant to call the meeting, so I said I will call the meeting. He said he wasn’t feeling well but he will send representatives. I spoke to Sajad Lone, I spoke to Shah Faesal, all of these people and finally Farooqsaheb called and said, Mehbooba, why don’t you come here. And so I went there and all of us met and then we went to the governor, Omar Abdullah and me and several others to seek out the truth about these rumours that Article 370 would be revoked. He (Malik) said, “Main aapko bata raha hoon, aisa kuchh nahin ho raha hai.” We know what happened the next day. We knew, we apprehended but until it struck us like a bolt the next day, we still were not ready to believe. We are living what we cannot believe.

Q. As a Kashmiri, and as a politician invested in the mainstream Opposition, where do you go from here?

It’s very tough to articulate that. Everyone says Kashmir is normal, tourists are coming. How are we to explain to people what is really happening in Kashmir? That Kashmiris are living under abject terror, they cannot even speak within their homes because they are afraid, that their very sense of being has been demolished. We are under the gun and the jackboot. The mildest political protest and our workers are rounded up and made to furnish a written undertaking that they will not participate in protests. Now they have started demolitions of people’s homes on one pretext or the other. There is complete terror. And they say tourists are going so Kashmir is normal. Kashmir is the most abnormal place in the world. Actually Kashmir is no longer for Kashmiris. All the big contracts are being given to outsiders, to businessmen from Gujarat and Haryana and such places. Our businesses cannot match their wealth, so they are now subcontractors to outsiders. From sand to the big discovery of lithium, everything is being handed over to outsiders. And in a corrupt fashion. Apart from everything else, this is also the most corrupt government.

Q. And so where do you head from here?

I don’t know where we are going. I feel this is not even Hindutva, what is playing out, this is Godse’s India and it frightens me. The BJP is allowing these elements free play, people who are spreading poison. And they will not have control. Look at Manipur, the kind of things happening there. I told Opposition leaders in Patna that what is happening in Manipur is the future face of India and nobody will be able to do anything about it. Manipur is a mirror to us.

Q. You are clearly invested in mainstream Opposition politics, with what sense do you participate in conclaves like the one just held in Patna?

Someone asked me that if the Opposition forms the government, will you demand Article 370? I said that battle is our own, it is a lonely battle for the people of Jammu and Kashmir to fight and we will fight it. Not only about 370, it has to go beyond. There has to be a closure to the hurt and the humiliation you have caused us. I have dedicated my life to this fight. Indian democracy, till sometime back, had the accommodation for our aspirations. My father would never give up on the idea of India and we will continue to have that faith. We became part of India not out of compulsion but out of choice. We thought our identity as Kashmiris will be more secure and special in India than in a country where everybody is of one religion. We thought we were slightly different and special and so we will be treated as special.

Q. Will you contest elections without statehood to maintain your political space?

At the moment we are focussed on the next parliamentary elections, I don’t think provincial elections will happen before that. We have to sit with our people. How could they have done this to us? We did not come to India as refugees, we are people from here. We bring to India such a beautiful land, such a rich culture, and this is what you do to us? You behave as if we are some territory you have captured, you behave as if we are not a people, not humans...?